Building Drive by ‘being’ a Bad Dog Trainer
Saturday, December 31st, 2011 at
9:11 pm
My wild Border Collie “Buzz” performs his favourite demo showing how many ‘driven’ dogs are created through bad dog training habits. Buzzy is the subject of my book “Shaping Success” (Dog Writers of America Choice for Dog Training Book of the Year in 2005).
@klevadawgz no, its not an accident waiting to happen. Building drive in a dog does not equate to creating an out of control dog.
Games like this teach the dog how to listen even when highly aroused and excited. Which is actually safer for a dog who’s going to spend any amount of time around? kids. I have kids, I have four dogs. We build drive AND we install an on/off switch
@ahoedel? Depending on your dog, have some version of a “PARTY!” with the toy -within earshot of your dog. They will become intersted in anything you place high value on like that. Then play with them and the toy (any toy, heck a sock or a carboard box would work, too). Your dog has never played with toys before? Fill a pencil case with their breakfast, attach it to a leash, let them see what’s inside and then start moving it around a bit so the kibble starts to come out. Have fun!
@urosca If they only read body language, how is it that millions of dogs respond to verbal cues? What about herding trials where the dog is trained on whistles and responds when they are long out of? visual range from the handler?
Even though I’ve watched this a million times I still think it’s one of the best dog training videos I’ve ever seen. I link it to all my new club members who turn round and say ‘My dog can’t tug’ or I was told not to play tuggy with him’. It just brilliant. My dogs all have the? drive that you have with Buzzy but not quite the control but we are getting there.
What a shame people have to try to make themselves look clever by picking apart a video that demonstrates a fun way to achieve great drive and control through play. It’s very clear the dog understands the game – look at how quickly he backs off the toy when the cue to take it isn’t given – fabulous. I love playing with my dogs this way, you get wonderful drive and with that drive comes the motivation to perform enthusiastically. ? Maybe not for the inexperienced but I love it!!
Very good point you are making here, Susan. I went to a seminar given by a behaviorist where we were shown a video clip of a golden retriever puppy who was a resource guarder. The owner was given some very bad advice by a very bad trainer, telling her to force the puppy to give up whatever he was guarding, by putting her knee on the puppy’s back and not giving up on the object until the puppy let go. At the age of 6 months, this puppy was put down,? because he became very aggressive.
I laughed so hard I cried! I do “bad” things with my “puppy,” and he LOVES it! ?
Love this video! Has been the best one for helping me to have fun and lose? inhibitions when playing with my dog and trying to improve his tugging enthusiasm.
Susan you crack me up?
Love it!!!
@max2right Please note in the title the quotations marks around the word “being”. That? implies while you are building more drive you try to “be” a bad dog trainer. will not address your other obvious slur against my credentials.
@klevadawgz while I respect your right to have your opinion, I use this very technique for building drive in flyball dogs. And what I think you miss is that we only play like this with one object. The TUG! My dogs know what a TUG is and what is NOT a TUG.? They are not idiots, they know when we are playing, and when we are not playing. I have 9 dogs who all live in the house uncrated together (I have some very high drive dogs when it comes to play), yet I have no issues like you suggest
…and reinforce the set of instinctual behaviours that you want displayed? I wouldnt include this in my training as I do not want my dogs reinforced for displaying this type of behaviour, it goes directly against my cues to keep them on the ground near people with wavy things in the air (so they dont snatch stuff and knock kids over)
Having recently taken my puppy? to “puppy classes” (which were great) the amount of times the others ignored the trainer saying “dont say no no no” is crazy!
I’ve always understood “Drive” is how likely a dog is to show instinctual behaviours – this video seems to illustrate that if you raise your voice and dance about you incite your dog to ’shout’ back again and because the jumping/barking is reinforced by attention from you and a moving toy its likely this will generalise eventually to all toys and is an accident waiting to happen if you have young kids about? ? Surely what you should do to increase drive is increase the dogs confidence …
@ClickerDogs First you say it’s what bad dog trainers do and demonstrait it.? Then you call it great, effective then brag about teaching it and about your credintials. What’s the point here? Many understand and use behavieral science as well as you.
@max2right No I am not saying this is THE way but it is A way drive is built into dogs. This is why many dogs hold their ball/toy tighter rather than spit it out when their owner? hollers at them or tries to pry their jaws open. Reinforcement does build behaviour and if it wasn’t reinforcing to hang on –the dog wouldn’t do it. A high dog like “Buzz” wouldn’t need this but if you wanted to increase a dog’s drive to “hold” — yes, play fighting the dog for the toy is an effective way of doing it.
@max2right No I am not saying this is THE way but it is A way drive is built into dogs. This is why many dogs hold their? ball/toy tighter rather than spit it out when their owner hollers at them or tries to pry their jaws open. Reinforcement does build behaviour and if it wasn’t reinforcing to hang on –the dog wouldn’t do it. Buzzy here is doing a demo, one of his favorites. He is a “high” dog and I would never do something like this as a way of training because yes, it would make him “higher”
@ClickerDogs Are you saying that your? actions starting about at 1:20 is the way to build drive?
Such a shame some people – and dog trainers – just don’t get what this video is all about.
Susan? you rock !
@max2right are you kidding me? This is a GREAT way to build drive and I have had success teaching thousands of people world wide to? increase their dog’s focus and drive using this as well as many other positive, science based games of drive. World renown trainers in all disciplines of dog training have sought out my help.
Dogs, dolphins, monkeys, man — all learn the same way.? It is science, not history or tradition that advances the way dogs are trained. It is outside the box thinking!
are you kidding me? This is a GREAT way to build drive and I have had success teaching thousands of people world wide to increase their? dog’s focus and drive using this as well as many other positive, science based games of drive. World renown trainers in all disciplines of dog training have sought out my help.
Dogs, dolphins, monkeys, man — all learn the same way.? It is science, not history or tradition that advances the way dogs are trained. It is outside the box thinking!
Golly, I didn’t think she was implying? that tons of professional dog trainers (and who said anything about Schutzhund??) are out there doing this. From my years of reading/observing Susan, she uses “trainer” to mean anyone handling or interacting with a dog (as is the case for all of us who have dogs). You have a dog, you interact with it, you’re a trainer. We’ve all seen someone do this, sometime. We all seem to agree this behavior is “bad” training… why the fuss?
MINE MINE MINE ok. Guys , stop dissing her. She’s a world famous dog trainer, and she makes a great point. And YES the MINE MINE MINE part does happen. My sister’s dog was taken to a place like that. One day she invited me to a lesson and by then end of it I? made them drop out aid trained the dog myself.
@max2right : Understood. But the point is really more subtle, calm dogs don’t seem keen & hyper, because of consistency & building steadiness; the hyper dogs raring to go at all times look very keen but are wasting energy due to inconsistent handling. They look “more” driven superficially.
So I agree with you to, but “”Buzz”? performs his favourite demo showing how many ‘driven’ dogs are created through bad dog training habits.” note the quotes around ‘driven’ !
@RobBCactive My point is that, contrary to what this woman says, bad dog training does not build drive and I’ve never seen anyone use the method she demonstrated? to do so. I believe It’s intellectual dishonesty. I agree with the rest o your comment,
@max2right : I found it very true to what I see out on dog walks. Your point is like those who argue that “noone trains a dog to jump up”, when I explain that’s what is happening. Training can? be passive not just active and deliberate, and it’s a demonstration of the results of inconsistency with a generally orderly and well behaved dog.
Bad dog trainers are inconsistent, excited and tend to yell a lot